Super Smash Bros. Brawl Match-Up's

[Sage1400]

this chart was made by pros

[isaac]

Originally Posted by Sage1400 this chart was made by self-proclaimed pros

Fix'd.
On a general basis, the MU chart is fine, but it a bit exaggerated all over.
They say some matchups being LITERALLY impossible is just childish.

Breezy has beaten tourney level ice climbers in a relatively srsface situation at, I believe Evo2k9.(from what i heard from nappy he was quite baffled )

I can believe 10:90. Even 5:95. But 0:100?

._.

Gannydorf does not suck that much.

[True_Blue]

i will add my input on this matter. no match up is 0:100 if anyone has the right mind to even say that aobut any type of match up in any game is just plain Blasphemy do you think that chara would be in the game if it was said to be 0:100? no i do nto think so ganon has one thing alot of the brawl charas dont have and thats the strength yes he maybe slow yes his face is something you do not want to wake up next to in the morning but if you play and use him the right way mind game the hell out of your opponent (this is why offline is so pro) you can beat them leaving them with a open jaw Sonic use to be how low on the Tier list? i have forgotten but it was not very nice...now he is mid tier who saw that coming...only the ones that showed it was something. this is all i have to say everyone underestimates someone or thing no matter who they are or how good and experienced they are which will sooner or later send them to defeat.

[Sage1400]

if you re good enough to get grabs off and not screw up, ganons done. he cant really counter of camp it

[[ST]Mana]

0-100 is a bit of an exaggeration as far as Shiek vs. Ganon goes. But not all that much, actually. In case anyone's curious as to why that is...

Originally Posted by http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=202473 Match-Up Ratio 05- 95 in Sheik's favor. Gerudo Effectiveness - Hard to do Possible Gerudo follow ups: 1.) Gerudo > DTilt Gerudo > Jab is possible if the Sheik tries to move itself forward. The Stage(s) Approach/Defense Options - Near Useless A sheik with a stock/damage advantage can pull out a chain under a platform and make it IMPOSSIBLE for Ganondorf to approach through it. Sheik's F-tilt -> U-smash does like 70% off the bat. She gimps you waaaaaaay too easily. She really doesn't have any trouble KOing Ganon....since he really doesn't have any good counters to her moveset. Sheik can needle camp all day to GET that advantage. Needles wreck Ganon's approach too. Aerial Options - Hard to do One thing aGnon can do is dair. Sheik cannot juggle Ganondorf as well as she could because his dair stops her aerial approach (namely uair and poorly spaced aerials). but then again, approaching with rar'd bair and fair works so lol nice try come again Our recovery (side b and up b) is predictable, Sheik's bair goes through both if timed right, fair can connect before Ganon can start up b (essentially stock right thererning to the stag). Building up Damage - Hard to do Stomps don't work as approaches, nor do gerudos. So basically, we'll have to find that major laggy predicatble moment where Sheik makes a mistake (highly unlikely), punish her with a Gerudo > Dtilt > A possible Aerial. Dealing with projectiles - Moderate Sheik can needle camp all day to GET that advantage. Needles wreck Ganon's approach too. Shielding could block them. Stomp - Near Useless Stomp could be used defensively here, as in any other match-up. But approaching with stomps..is almost useless. Edge Guarding - Spike - Hard to do You might be able to land a few spikes, if she tether recovers, find the distance she'll hang and spike her from their. Tip Man - Hard to do If you get her while she's recovering with her tether, you''ll be able land a couple of Tip mans, it's still going to be hard to do though. Vanish Glide Sheik's faviorte KO Move, and it should be indeed. KO's at exteremely low percentages, near the edge, has good range and is supringly fast. Sheik's Chain It can lock us, trap us, gimp us, what more? DTilt nor any other of Ganondorf's moves outranges it. Though, UpTilt possibly would, but Sheik could punish us severely due to UPtilt's start-up time.

[Folm]

Stickied?

I still disagree with many of the matchups. Saw matchup threads that said otherwise.

Like everyone else, no matchup is 0:100. if IC vs gannon is 0:100 because of grabs, then IC should be best in the game with a 100:0 match up against everyone.

Edit: Actually, 100:0 matchups do exist. DeDeDe can infi CG Mario and other chars by Dthrowing in place and not even dashing. No wall is necessary either... but this will more than likely be banned and the mario main would switch chars.

[Josh]

This thread has now been unstickied since many can argue that you can't really have a 0-100 or 5-95 ratio at best..I can understand 70-30, but not something of that magnitude at all. It's clear some of the match-up ratios are false.

[[ST]Mana]

Quote: This thread has now been unstickied since many can argue that you can't really have a 0-100 or 5-95 ratio at best..I can understand 70-30, but not something of that magnitude at all. It's clear some of the match-up ratios are false.

Just because something is ridiculous doesn't make it false. Take the Ganon vs. Shiek example. Literally everything is in Shiek's favor. Shiek doesn't have to approach, Shiek has a move which can stop literally everything Ganon can do underneath a platform, if Shiek lands a single f-tilt she can combo him to 70%, Shiek can easily gimp him off-stage for an easy KO.

I don't care what you say about it being ridiculous and therefore false: the match-up is ridiculous. It's is so favorable for Shiek that arguing anything below 90 : 10 in Shiek's favor is to lie, IMO.

Quote: If IC vs gannon is 0:100 because of grabs, then IC should be best in the game with a 100:0 match up against everyone.

That's a poor assumption. Ganon will always have to approach because of ice-block camping with moves with such poor start-up time the IC player will always be able to punish if he or she's not playing dumb. What with? A grab. The reason not all IC matchups are 100-0 is because other characters have either A) projectiles to out-camp the ICs with, B) effective moves to poke the Ice-Climber's shield with and/or separate the climbers, or C) land/air-speed enough to pull off a move sufficiently quick enough such that the IC player is unable to figure out what they're going to punish. Ganon has none of these.

And that's just assuming that the IC character is doing nothing but camping and then reading the Ganon as they approach.

If you want to prove me wrong, then go ahead, bring Ganon into a match with a tourney-level Sheik or ICs and prove me wrong. I'd be more than glad to admit Ganon has a hope in spite of some ridiculously skewed matchup ratios some people from smashboards insist upon.

But I have never been shown anything other than what confirms the above matchup ratios.

[Josh]

One reason as to why I unstickied this thread because it's a bit controversial. Many people could give a good argument as to why a match-up could highly be in favor of one character over another. Others may perceive that a 0-100 ratio means that the character with the disadvantage, has no chance of beating the other character at all when pitted against each other at the same level. I could be definitely wrong saying the match-up ratios of 5-95 to 0-100 may be false, it can be truly possible.

[[ST]Mana]

Fair enough, then. I guess matchups in general are pretty subjective. Still, it might not be that bad of an idea to have some form of matchup thread sticked here...

[Ride The Yoshi]

Originally Posted by [ST]Mana Fair enough, then. I guess matchups in general are pretty subjective. Still, it might not be that bad of an idea to have some form of matchup thread sticked here...

There's really no point to stickying this thread.

Though it can be a source of intelligent discussion, some members may start getting into arguments which may lead to the locking of this thread. Having a stickied thread where people spam and/or flame wouldn't be logical, in my opinion.

If someone really wanted to see this, then they can find the link to it in the Art of Brawl thread.

[True_Blue]

even if you do that it depends on the players themselves everyone has a bad day/hour/moment no one person is perfect thats why i argue the it ony has a 90:10 ratio or lower. and the fact that it WILL not be a total 3 stock two tourney players Ganon & Shiek it will mostly come down to 1 stock.