How do I fight ??? with ???

[Pretz]

(Please tell me if you think this is deserving of sticky)
Okay this is a thread for all youz who have a really good main, but there is one or two matchups they really throw you off your game and you cant fight them at ALL.

Here you can request or find already listed advice on what your advantages are in this matchup as well as what strategy to use.

Its also a great way to find out what YOUR weak points are in certain matchups.

For instance Player A may learn how to better fight Player B, but Player B read the same advice and now knows what to watch for.

All contributions are welcome

USE THIS THREAD BY:
1.Requesting specific matchup advice with this form:

REQUEST

--Character:

--Opponent:

--What you find difficult:

2.Responding to someone elses request(which you may find listed as pending or read in their post) by explaining what strategies work in that particular matchup (You will most likely main one of the chaacters in said matchup) with this form:

ADVICE

--Character:

--Opponent:

--Tips:

3.Post advice about any particular matchup without it being requested. with the same form as above.

List ordered alphabetically by character your playing against, Then by character being used.

this is going to need lots of space so forgive the massive overpost that follows ^_^

[Pretz]

VS Bowser:------------------

VS Captain Falcon:------------

VS Diddy Kong:---------------

VS Donkey Kong:-------------

VS Falco:--------------------

*PENDING REQUEST*

Diddy Kong

I always have trouble approaching Falco because he is fast and has a gun. Any recommendations for beating Falco?


*PENDING REQUEST*

Marth

i cant get close to them with out geting hit


VS Fox:----------------------

VS Game & Watch:-----------

[Pretz]

VS Ganondorf:---------------

VS Ice Climbers:-------------

VS Ike:----------------------

*PENDING REQUEST*

Marth

i cant get close to them with out geting hit


VS Jigglypuff:----------------

VS King Dedede:--------------

*PENDING REQUEST*

Ike
----------
Toon Link:
-Like with all match ups against the pwnguin you're gonna need to space significantly...don't get into his range to set up his CG's. Ariels and Dodgejumps are your friend...your boomerang is quite handy in this matchup causing hit stun and leaving him open for a smash or an ariel combo. Plus DDD is a heavy weight so juggling him isn't hard as it would be if say your were playing a lucario or kirby. Downsmash is probably your best smash in this match up and Up-smash is okay when he is airborne (Oversmash will leave you too open) Make sure you use the zair...it's Toon's best spacing tactic and it does cause some hit stun so follow it with a grab or again another ariel combo. SHDA (Short-Hop Double Arrow) for a surprise that is if fact you can perform the maneuver

VS Kirby:---------------------

VS Link:----------------------

[Pretz]

VS Lucario:-----------------

VS Lucas:-------------------

VS Luigi:--------------------

VS Mario:-------------------

VS Marth:-------------------

*PENDING REQUEST*

Peach

It's especially bad with Marth because of his blade tip thing, but I just can't get in close enough to them. Their swords always keeps them just out of range. The only way I could think to counter is to use her vegetables but then I get called a spammer and I don't want to have to overuse them.


VS Meta Knight:-------------

*PENDING REQUEST*

Ike
---

Yoshi:

-Spacing is key here since metas hitbox is hax.
For the most part you have to pivot grab and pivot grab and pivot grab
is just to good against meta follow the grab with grab release CG
When u get him off stage after CG you can do 3 things
A. run off spike
B. run off rising nair
C. egg spam the ************************ out of him

all 3 work pretty well
rinse and repeat
If meta is in high percentages you can follow a grab release with up smash it's a free kill
If your facing a tornado happy meta you can pivot grab him out of it or throw an egg
Having trouble recovering against meta?
Well you can avoid every attack he does off stage by a rising DI
Don't try to rush meta and spot dodge a lot
every yoshi main should spot dodge much more than shield
and especially in this match up since meta can punish you to easy out of shield
And remember keep meta at bay with eggs

Match up score 55;45 mk
---
Zelda:

-This can be a very annoying matchup if the MK is pro. Unless at a distance, you should play defensively.
The main thing to worry about is GETTING TOO CLOSE. When MK is directly next to you, he's most likely gonna dsmash. BUT YOUR DSMASH IS PRETTY MUCH JUST AS FAST, so if the MK gets spammy, just SPOTDODGE to DSMASH for some distance.
Another annyonce is his 'higher than yours' aerial priority. Unless your very lucky, you most likely wont get to many, if any, lightning kicks or uairs on him. If he's on the ground, don't try to fair him...he's too short. Though, you can sometimes fake him fair'ing or bair'ing him, with the intent tohit nothing, and then neutral b before you hit the ground. Important thing about that, is that you should face away from him when doing it. Though, the best aerial you have is most likely nair. Sure, it's not great, but it can sometimes be a good anti-air. You can also sometimes trick them by fastfalling during nair. Just don't spam it. Another important thing: if you do happen to land next to an MK, TRY TO MAKE SURE YOU'RE BEHIND HIM. If he tries to dsmash, you'll have a tiny bit more time to react than if you land in front of him. Following up with Neutral B can work, but only if you're facing away from MK, when you land behind him. It's also a good way to get MK away from you, again, more likely to work if your facing away from him. Best part, you have a few invincibilty frames at the start of it.
If MK isnt on your ass, things should be a bit easier. You can try to Din's fire him, not that it will work much, but you can try it, only if you have quite a bit of distance away from him. Another thing is charging a smash. Zelda's fsmash needs a bit of time to start up. It can be a mistake to use it in close range against MK. It also eats up shields, so that's a plus. You could also try to ftilt, hoping he gets faked out from the long startup lag.
Next, my favorite part, dtilt. Dtilts can also be used to help 'in-close' situations. It can be used on MKs who might run in to attempt to dash attack or grab. It can also, if you're close enough, sometimes HIT AN MK BEHIND YOU WITH IT. If he trips, you can go straight into dsmash or grab, the former prefered. If it doesnt trip, you can still TRY the grab, since they'll probably think that you'll try to dtilt again or dsmash, but you might wanna shield or spotdodge, considering he'll be facing you. He should try to dsmash upon repeated dtilts, so use with caution. Another great thing, if his % is around 90 or higher, follow the dtilt with an upsmash or utilt. It's sexy. I think dtilts are the second best thing in a Zelda vs. MK matchup.
Usmash can work as a good anti-air on MK when he tries to land. But, unlike most other characters, it cannot hit MK while he's on the ground, so don't try to approach on the ground with it. And if you miss, you'll most likely be punished. If he tries to airdodge, try letting it off during the airdodge. Pretty sure, he cant dodge all of the hits.
A big no-no in this matchup: USING UP+B AS AN ATTACK.
Unless the MK is stupid, or doesnt play Zeldas much, HE WILL BLOCK IT, AND YOU WILL GET PUNISHED. PERIOD. Try to use it VERY sparringly. When trying to use it as recovery, unless he tries to edgehog, sweetspot that edge, it's most likely your best bet.

Switching into Sheik:
Unless you have some AMAZING plan, I'd be against it if MK is still alive. Best thing to do is wait for him to be sent off the stage, knowing that he will die. Easiest when he gets Star KO'd. Not sure, but turning into Sheik, and back to Zelda MIGHT RESET STALE MOVE NEGATION. Though, if MK is still on the field, make sure you're in the air when your transformation ends, so you can go in an airdodge. Else you'll catch a charged smash attack, which will most likely kill you.
Not sure what put for edgeguarding him...I wouldn't try to dair him too much, since his up b is so much faster. You'd have to execute it before you actually get near him, but that's extremely risky. You can try to dtilt him when he's holding the edge for a meteor spike, but that rarely ever works. So, just Din's Fire him at a SAFE DISTANCE.

Match up score 60;40 mk

VS Ness:--------------------

[Pretz]

VS Peach:------------------

VS Pikachu:-----------------

*PENDING REQUEST*

Pit

VS Olimar:-------------------

*PENDING REQUEST*

Ike

VS Pit:----------------------

VS Pokemon Trainer:---------

VS R.O.B.:-------------------

*PENDING REQUEST*

Zss

---
Falco:

-Use the reflectors range to your advatage, you can neutralize and then steal the gyros if they land on the floor, use this in combination with falco's GT or hold onto ot to disable him from using the move altogether.
---
Zelda:

-1. When avoiding getting hit by his projectiles choose between the reflect and spot dodge/shield carefully, a good ROB will use them in succession so the latter will hit you after you shied/dodge/reflect, so pick according to when you will be in vulnerable after-lag

Also a good ROB will know how to grab a reflected gyro with his dash attack so more than half the time your basically handing it to him to GT your butt, if u reflect try to do it to the lazer, when the gyro is out so you wont get countered, however most ROBs will angle the beam as to not get reflected upon. When timing this always keep youre eye on two things, the led on ROBs head, and whenever ROB cocks his head back to shoot. this can tip u off early enough to be prepared/react.

3.the Nair is tricky because its hitbox moves around to hit you in different ways, the best policy is to shieldgrab an incoming nair, eliminating any timing failure.

4.As far as offensive/ defensive goes you should only be on the offensive if ROB is recovering and descending from high above, otherwise his powerfull F and D smashes along with GT's into everything under the sun will punish a offfensice style.





VS Samus:--------------------

[Pretz]

VS Sheik:--------------------

VS Snake:-------------------

*PENDING REQUEST*

Ike

*PENDING REQUEST*

ZSS:

I can't get around well with out being trapped by various mines and grenades around the place.
And approaching snake before a nikita or mortar slide starts against me.
I'm fine for the firstr but with armor peices, I try to get the snake to set of the c4 by running and jumping near it and then as soon as I hera him say Now I Down-B with its nice invinsibility frames.


Samus:

-U wanna keep your spacing from snake w/ zairs (air grapple) and projectiles to setup combos and keep the camp snakes at bay. Since we both know that samus doesnt have a great kill move and w/ good DI a snake user can take forever to kill, your best friend will be her meteor smash. Very effective move since snake is so open during his recovery

---

Yoshi:

-This is a momentum match up
To fight snake you DEFINITELY need proper spacing

Snake's range is too good so you'll need to use eggs a lot here
eggs eggs eggs
Blow his grenades in his face make him think twice of using grenades

Your jab works well but do not overuse it
it can stop snake's first ftilt but not his second
Take advantage of his recovery you can spike him pretty easily or nair him
You can pivot grab him out of any air approach he makes and his mortar slide

For you to approach grabs do the trick and retreating bairs
but careful of his overpowered tilts

proper spacing and patience wins this match up

match up score 60;40 snake



VS Sonic:--------------------

VS Toon Link:----------------

*PENDING REQUEST*

Ike

VS Wario:--------------------

VS Wolf:---------------------

VS Yoshi:--------------------

VS Zelda:--------------------

VS Zero Suit Samus:----------

*PENDING REQUEST*
My character: Pit
Opponent: ZSS

As a Pit player I realize that having short range is the problem. This is where ZSS's Side-B KO thing annoys me. It's range is what makes me nervous, and being the aggressive player I am, I don't Shield that much or dont hold it out that long. This is my problem against Speed characters in general, but having to approach without much arrow use restricts me from doing much.
This ZSS does use Armor pieces to attack at the beginning, not a complete problem, but still this one knows Glidetossing and it is that reason Im afraid to reflect all the time. Thankfully I know how to glidetoss too.
The ZSS does like to get me into the air a lot, usually by using the Dash attack to U-tilt thing, then it's U-air city against me. That's another thing I hate, the ZSS does love U-airs very often, equivalent to a Marth loving his F-airs. With this char's high jumps, I'm tempted either to airdodge or to retreat to the ledge again and ledgecamp, but even that dont last long with that stupid Side-B reaching out at me, or Dsmash stunning me, then I get B-air stage spiked...
Then the Dsmash, the ZSS doesnt spam it like desperate ones do, well this one's pretty good, I suppose.

Majority problems:
Pit doesnt have range like ZSS does, and this is worse considering her speed, high jumping, and that stupid Paralyzing Dsmash that I'm helpless against once i get hit. As for the Armor pieces, it's 50-50 but leaning to my advantage due to me reflectors.
The U-air spam annoys me too.
---------------------------------

[Jao]

I Main the all powerful Samus.

Snake effs my ************************ up.

Tell meh, tell meh, tell meh. xD.

[Pretz]

youll have to wait untill someone with one a those mains comes along

be patient this is new O.O

[Jao]

Originally Posted by XPretzelman youll have to wait untill someone with one a those mains comes along be patient this is new O.O

Ok haha.

/me sits down and eats kettle korn

[Pretz]

Lucky

but back on topic imma throw a Vs ROB up there to demonstrate

[virustsunami]

I trhink it would be better individual threads for each character, no?

[Pretz]

im not setting up 35 threads

plus one source is better

one place to show up if you need help 'gainst someone

so someone who shows up to ask for help against marth may see a request about how to fight sonic

so they ask their question and help out some1 else with theirs

guess what im trying to say is all this info is related, and having it all in one organized list makes sense