Why quick claw

[greetest]

Originally Posted by BIM DustinR is the only person on this site that doesn't know how to enjoy battles and see the fun side We all enjoy battling but using hax items is just infuriating sometimes, you'll never truly understand it until your entire strategy fails because of these things

LMAO sorry but you hit a funny spot

[Afrikio]

Well example of hax item would be Focus band (not sash), with this the pokemon can survive 2 OHKO in a row, and it gets annoying. Quick claw annoys me :|

[Mechawatts]

Originally Posted by Kenpari They are banned because they are items based on chance, and it's just not really fair. Quick Claw gives a chance to move first and Focus Band gives a chance to hold on, no matter you HP before you were hit. It's just not fair when it activates, especially quick claw. Also, Nintendo generally goes by what everybody here on the internet that does competitive battling does.

Random elements of the game exist outside of the Hax Clause anyways. What if Metronome draws Judgment? It's a lucky draw, but the player would have to choose Metronome over a more predictable move like Moonlight or Meteor Smash. Focus Band forces a strategic choice between a switchout to safety and chance of getting another hit in— and that's after you've already selected it as a hold item over more reliable equipment. People are quick to complain when Quick Claw works, but who calls shenanigans when it doesn't? ("No fair! Counter would've killed you if you'd gone first!")

Nintendo's tournament regulations do not ban Hax. In the 2009 Pokémon VGC Tournament Regulations, the only banned item is Soul Dew. Also, moves are practically unregulated— i.e. Double Team is allowed. Their list of banned Pokémon is much different from Nintendo Worlds' list of Übers, too— even Wobbuffet is okay.

Most of comments on this thread amount to 'If you don't like the rules, take your ball and go play somewhere else.' Hax? Fissure? Destiny Bond? Cheap. I don't necessarily disagree; Wobbuffet is horribly unbalanced. However: If we spend all our time learning to fight inside the boxing ring with padded gloves and rope boundaries, who's fault is it when we get kicked in the junk during a street fight?

My point is that we, as a community, should be preparing for the Big Show— the Official Tournaments. Our current system of complicated Clauses and Tiers isn't preparing us for the reality of competitive play outside the Forum. In other words: We're nerfing ourselves.

[BIM]

Originally Posted by Mechawatts Random elements of the game exist outside of the Hax Clause anyways. What if Metronome draws Judgment? It's a lucky draw, but the player would have to choose Metronome over a more predictable move like Moonlight or Meteor Smash. Focus Band forces a strategic choice between a switchout to safety and chance of getting another hit in— and that's after you've already selected it as a hold item over more reliable equipment. People are quick to complain when Quick Claw works, but who calls shenanigans when it doesn't? ("No fair! Counter would've killed you if you'd gone first!") Nintendo's tournament regulations do not ban Hax. In the 2009 Pokémon VGC Tournament Regulations, the only banned item is Soul Dew. Also, moves are practically unregulated— i.e. Double Team is allowed. Their list of banned Pokémon is much different from Nintendo Worlds' list of Übers, too— even Wobbuffet is okay. Most of comments on this thread amount to 'If you don't like the rules, take your ball and go play somewhere else.' Hax? Fissure? Destiny Bond? Cheap. I don't necessarily disagree; Wobbuffet is horribly unbalanced. However: If we spend all our time learning to fight inside the boxing ring with padded gloves and rope boundaries, who's fault is it when we get kicked in the junk during a street fight? My point is that we, as a community, should be preparing for the Big Show— the Official Tournaments. Our current system of complicated Clauses and Tiers isn't preparing us for the reality of competitive play outside the Forum. In other words: We're nerfing ourselves.

These aren't really NP rules they are more like the Smogon standard rules but people are generally happy with them

If you want to play by official tournament rules then make a battle thread stating that and people will know what to expect, if you don't want to get nerfed at a tournament thats all I can suggest

but look at it this way, if I was entering a tournament i would rather know what outcome my held item will bring and not be left to chance as there are very few times when this would be beneficial to me

but of course its up to you

[Mechawatts]

Kenpari was suggesting in his post that Nintendo's rules are the just like the Forum/Internet/Serebii.net standard, which they aren't. Using Hax to win is just as valid as any other non-AR'd method as far as I care. A good strategy can be undone by any number of factors, so why not sharpen ourselves on those most likely to occur when stakes are highest? (like a $7,500 scholarship, trophy, sweet DSi, and prestige like "The Champion cut his teeth on Nintendo Pals Forum Tourneys.") Did you download the VGC championship matches? There was a Smeargle that knew Dark Void. It was a cheap trick, but I didn't think of it, and it would've worked on me.

Rules push people to achieve and add to the experience, while restrictions detract and stagnate the environment. Is the Hax Clause (indeed, most Clauses) helping us, or hurting us?

[greetest]

Originally Posted by BIM These aren't really NP rules they are more like the Smogon standard rules but people are generally happy with them If you want to play by official tournament rules then make a battle thread stating that and people will know what to expect, if you don't want to get nerfed at a tournament thats all I can suggest but look at it this way, if I was entering a tournament i would rather know what outcome my held item will bring and not be left to chance as there are very few times when this would be beneficial to me but of course its up to you

See there's that word again chance its something that is uncontrollable just because one thing has a better chance of working doesn't mean that chance isn't involved. Remember this You are taking away an reliable item such as leftover to put in an major chance item such as Q Claw or worst Focus band. Focus band in my entire life has only worked 10-15 times i swear but focus sash worked for me more then 20 matches i am sure. I'm not saying i don't enjoy the way everyone else plays to be honest it kinda grew on me especially since no one will play with out those rules unless its a tournament but its about time people stop saying that these items are un-fair and just admit that the items that are so called Hax has a fair side to it. If Leftover works 100% of the time and Focus sash only works 40% of the time then obviously like in every game the item with the less chance would have a greater effect. Double team takes time to build so if you getting pounded at or one hit killed you screwed. Now there is no game that has characters in this case pokemon that are 100% even but thats what variety is.

Now you wonder why don't we just go off in our corner and play by these rules well its simple beside my friends who aren't the type to play that much no one here will play by those rules unless they are forced to do so. I don't mind smogon rules but I just trying to see if anyone can convince me beyond a reasonable doubt that they are hax

Originally Posted by Mechawatts Random elements of the game exist outside of the Hax Clause anyways. What if Metronome draws Judgment? It's a lucky draw, but the player would have to choose Metronome over a more predictable move like Moonlight or Meteor Smash. Focus Band forces a strategic choice between a switchout to safety and chance of getting another hit in— and that's after you've already selected it as a hold item over more reliable equipment. People are quick to complain when Quick Claw works, but who calls shenanigans when it doesn't? ("No fair! Counter would've killed you if you'd gone first!") Nintendo's tournament regulations do not ban Hax. In the 2009 Pokémon VGC Tournament Regulations, the only banned item is Soul Dew. Also, moves are practically unregulated— i.e. Double Team is allowed. Their list of banned Pokémon is much different from Nintendo Worlds' list of Übers, too— even Wobbuffet is okay. Most of comments on this thread amount to 'If you don't like the rules, take your ball and go play somewhere else.' Hax? Fissure? Destiny Bond? Cheap. I don't necessarily disagree; Wobbuffet is horribly unbalanced. However: If we spend all our time learning to fight inside the boxing ring with padded gloves and rope boundaries, who's fault is it when we get kicked in the junk during a street fight? My point is that we, as a community, should be preparing for the Big Show— the Official Tournaments. Our current system of complicated Clauses and Tiers isn't preparing us for the reality of competitive play outside the Forum. In other words: We're nerfing ourselves.

We are crutching our selves by taking these things out i agree with u 100% items are there for a reason. To add variety to the game and the greater effect the greater chance you are taking. you words run deep and make a lot of sense.

Originally Posted by Mechawatts Kenpari was suggesting in his post that Nintendo's rules are the just like the Forum/Internet/Serebii.net standard, which they aren't. Using Hax to win is just as valid as any other non-AR'd method as far as I care. A good strategy can be undone by any number of factors, so why not sharpen ourselves on those most likely to occur when stakes are highest? (like a $7,500 scholarship, trophy, sweet DSi, and prestige like "The Champion cut his teeth on Nintendo Pals Forum Tourneys.") Did you download the VGC championship matches? There was a Smeargle that knew Dark Void. It was a cheap trick, but I didn't think of it, and it would've worked on me. Rules push people to achieve and add to the experience, while restrictions detract and stagnate the environment. Is the Hax Clause (indeed, most Clauses) helping us, or hurting us?

Spoken like a True Trainer lol EXPERIENCE ROAR HELPS US. using rules that take away from the game or life will hurt you. or thats what i believed

[JaWzZzZz]

I think "Hax" items should be changed to items that aren't legitimately obtainable within the game. Now there would be no arguing with that.

I do though agree that item usage restrictions are fair. For instance, only being able to use Leftovers on every Pokemon. I've come across that myself and it's very fustrating.

[Mechawatts]

I may have been misleading: there is an Item Clause and Species Clause in Official Tournaments. I don't think there is anyone who would argue why a one-species only team is a bad idea, or even one-item only.

[gamer22]

item clause is fail not much people like that rule

species clause is okey to you dont want see the same pokemon like 2 fat blisseys for example
or just say 2 garchomps if it came back to ou

[nelo]

yeh item clauses are stupid because it's like so what if they go first if your a good enough trainer than you should still be able to beat them

[greetest]

Originally Posted by gamer22 item clause is fail not much people like that rule species clause is okey to you dont want see the same pokemon like 2 fat blisseys for example or just say 2 garchomps if it came back to ou

I agree to be honest its a fail bcz items should be used its there for a reason species are good bcuz like in alot of games u arent allowed to pick the same character twice fighting games mostly SNK vs Capcom MVC (unless u unlock it) but they are suppose to be one person per team one scizor per team

[Mechawatts]

I agree there shouldn't be any limits on what items are allowed, but I think multiples of the same item or species being disallowed is fair. Otherwise, it could give an unfair advantage to someone who'd purchased multiple versions. If I recall correctly, the Official Tournament Regulations are almost the same as the Battle Frontier, aren't they?